Ep 30: Tips for Inclusive Social Media Marketing
Shownotes
In this episode, Joyann and Jade will walk you through some nifty tips and suggestions on how to make your social media platforms more inclusive. They'll be covering topics like alt text, stock photos and the fascinating world of influencer marketing!
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You can find the transcript here.
Useful links:
Ep 12: Inclusive Marketing from a Content Creators Perspective with Joy Ofodu
Ep 17: The Rundown on Inclusive Influencer Marketing with Charlotte Stavrou
Transcript
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:18:07
Joyann Boyce
Welcome and welcome back to the Marketing Made Inclusive podcast. I am your host Joyann Boyce. We're excited to have you back with us this week. And this week we have the wonderful, the amazing Jade from the Arima and Co team. How are you Jade?
00:00:18:10 - 00:00:20:10
Jade Pett
I'm good. How are you?
00:00:20:13 - 00:00:43:20
Joyann Boyce
I'm great. You know, I really getting into the vibe of season two. I'm enjoying, enjoying the ventures and the topics that we've been brainstorming and coming up with who, see I say words, and then I have the moment of pause, but let's, remind me to check if brainstorming is still relevant or still appropriate, because I think that might not be.
00:00:43:22 - 00:01:10:17
Joyann Boyce
Yeah, it's one of those words and that's kind of like an insight into a little, if anyone's listening, how things happen in the team. We just live our everyday life and we talk this like, Oh, is that a thing? Is that not a thing? Yeah, but today the thing we will be focusing on is how to be inclusive in your social media marketing.
00:01:10:19 - 00:01:53:29
Joyann Boyce
Now this one is near and dear to my heart because my first venture into marketing was social media marketing and social media management. And I remember the first time it kind of came up, but it wasn't as apparent was when I was doing the marketing for Black Girl Convention and I was planning all that social media and we are researching and I think I had a conversation in with the founder of Black Girl Convention, Mena Fombo, about the different types of Black women we want to profile and hindsight, I'm just like, oh my gosh, that was my, one of my first conversations about intersectional representation within a niche, the niche being Black women,
00:01:53:29 - 00:02:10:06
Joyann Boyce
which is not a niche. It's a huge market, but how we can represent different types of Black women in different subject matters. Jade, I I'm taking a huge guess here, but when was your first interaction with inclusive social media marketing?
00:02:10:09 - 00:02:15:12
Jade Pett
It was when I joined Arima. I hadn't even heard of it before.
00:02:15:14 - 00:02:46:28
Joyann Boyce
Yeah, I was just like, I'm taking a huge guess. I think I know the answer. But I think one of the first challenges we had was around alt texts, and that was a journey and a half for us. But first, let's do a huge overview for those who don't know anything about social media marketing in general. It's marketing, whatever your product, service or business is on the social platforms and I am a huge advocate of you can do almost anything in social media marketing.
00:02:47:00 - 00:03:17:05
Joyann Boyce
I have met many marketers who are like no mailing list always first or website always first. I'm just like, you can test an idea on social. You can do a lot on social. But it is still a platform owned by others, so you got to make sure you do convert people to get their emails and so forth. Now one, whenever I talk to social media marketers or I talk to people in the space, they don't even think about, you need to be inclusive.
00:03:17:07 - 00:03:19:14
Jade Pett
It baffles me.
00:03:19:16 - 00:03:41:07
Joyann Boyce
And they don’t. They don’t see it. It baffles us because we are on the other side of the fence, but honestly, when we do our training and we talk about different areas, people are just like, oh, okay, but one of the most common ones that I hear and people kind of relate to is stock photos.
00:03:41:07 - 00:03:57:20
Joyann Boyce
And a lot of the times social media marketers who are marketing for like products or things that don't have active imagery that they can get regularly, use a lot of stock photos and it is hard to find inclusive stuff.
00:03:57:21 - 00:04:16:08
Joyann Boyce
It is hard to, because of the way things are set up, the search terms, you have to put in there just the platforms you have to go to before we because Jade, I think you joined before we had our inclusive marketing resource hub.
00:04:16:10 - 00:04:16:29
Jade Pett
Yeah.
00:04:17:02 - 00:04:38:11
Joyann Boyce
And you helped us build out the stock photos with that because we, we collected a bunch of resources in that hub and we had to go through a lot of ways of like finding representation of stock photos. What was your process before we had the hub and then after we had the hub.
00:04:38:13 - 00:04:58:25
Jade Pett
So I mean, I kind of always and as we go back to the same few sites on the other more generic sites, things like Pexels, Unsplash and the kind of more generic ones, but it is really learning how to search properly and then also being prepared to spend some time on it. You're not going to find what you want instantly.
00:04:59:02 - 00:05:23:29
Jade Pett
You need to sit there and you need to look. And so I think just learning to make sacrifices. There's been so many times I want a specific image and I can see it in my head, but because they don't have the intersectionality quite right, or the tone’s too cheesy, they don't have everyone perfectly related. You have to do whatever the closest fit is and just sacrifice to live your inner vision, but that, you can still be inclusive.
00:05:23:29 - 00:05:27:15
Jade Pett
It just won't be quite. I still think the selection is just not there yet.
00:05:27:21 - 00:06:01:05
Joyann Boyce
It's not there yet and there's a lot of work to be done in the stock photo industry in general, but it's so hilarious. You mentioned the cheesy element because as soon as I've had some clients that have like search for the word diversity thinking, it's going to bring out this amazing picture. And I can tell you right now, off the top of my brain, I can probably imagine, I can tell you the top five pictures, one of them will be the fist bump in the circle, wears a bunch of different hands, different skin tones, and they're all fist bumping in the circle, that no, please, please stop.
00:06:01:07 - 00:06:09:12
Jade Pett
LGBTQ are often are really cheesy as well. There, it’s just all glitter, all Pride flags. There's no subtle ones.
00:06:09:15 - 00:06:25:10
Joyann Boyce
All right, so what's our first tip for how to search for a non cheesy? Because it's not just putting diversity in there. What's the first tip you’d give someone if they're looking for a more inclusive photo, say, of a family or just a more inclusive genre.
00:06:25:13 - 00:06:40:20
Jade Pett
I would say be really specific in your search terms, say two dad parents and a child if you're, if that's what you’re looking for. Say specifically what it is that you want, and then you'll be a little more, a little bit more likely to find what it is that you have in your mind.
00:06:40:23 - 00:07:05:29
Joyann Boyce
And I think there's a lot of fear sometimes about being specific. But when it comes to labelling images, the photographers who upload them put their own labels on them, and then the stock photo website has their own labelling. So you're essentially playing a game of bias detection. You kind of have to say what you're looking for. You can't just say, oh, I'm looking for women in a wheelchair because it’s gonna bring up cheesy.
00:07:05:29 - 00:07:23:28
Joyann Boyce
It's going to bring up mostly white women. So say Asian woman, wheelchair or Asian woman outside, like we know how to say these things when we're talking about scenery and environment. But sometimes people get really uncomfortable when they have to describe individuals.
00:07:24:00 - 00:07:34:07
Jade Pett
Yeah, yeah. I think overcoming that would then bleed into other areas of inclusive marketing. So the sooner you've got that down, the easier life will become.
00:07:34:09 - 00:07:55:00
Joyann Boyce
And it makes it so much easier to find things. There's a lot of resources out there that create stock photo packages. Like one of my faves is around illustration. So we talk about stock photography. But then another element in social media marketing is using stock illustrations to like represent things or represent actions. And I speak about them all the time.
00:07:55:00 - 00:08:27:14
Joyann Boyce
But there is an organization called Black Illustrations and they are still going they are still making an illustration pack. I think almost every month of a different genre of Black illustrations. It was first it was like Black women in tech, then it was old people outside and they just keep going and building up the packs. And I'm just thinking here’s one representation of taking an area of representation within illustration and broaden it for the marketing need.
00:08:27:17 - 00:08:28:11
Jade Pett
Yeah. Super niche.
00:08:28:14 - 00:08:29:11
Joyann Boyce
I'm excited.
00:08:29:17 - 00:08:31:23
Jade Pett
And intersectional. Love that.
00:08:31:23 - 00:09:07:15
Joyann Boyce
Love that. I'm excited to see more. If anyone comes across any types of illustrations, I don't think I've seen one that has represented full intersectionality in terms of disability. I've seen one that kind of do disability in the sense of different types of disability visual that wheelchair, amputees and so forth. But I've also seen them blended with race and body size, you know, for some reason the representation of illustrations of disabled individuals tend to be thin.
00:09:07:17 - 00:09:13:00
Joyann Boyce
I'm like, I don't understand. There are other body shapes out there to represent.
00:09:13:03 - 00:09:15:23
Jade Pett
Yeah. That’s true.
00:09:15:26 - 00:09:47:21
Joyann Boyce
All right. So first, your tips. When you're searching for stock photos, be specific. Get comfortable with it, describing what you're looking for. There's also representation illustrations. And our next, are third are we on three? Our third tip. It will be alt texts. Now for those who don't know, all text is essentially it's describing an image or video for individuals who have screen readers and it's also beneficial, beneficial for SEO.
00:09:47:23 - 00:10:14:20
Joyann Boyce
We've had our journey with alt text because we like to practice what we preach, but we are only human and a small organization, so we like to be realistic with what we can achieve. Jade, you've had more of a journey with this than I have, because Jade’s in charge of the socials for Arima and for Inclued AI. And I kind of made a standard rule that we have to have alt takes on everything.
00:10:14:20 - 00:10:19:09
Joyann Boyce
I think, what was the first method we used to do?
00:10:20:09 - 00:10:32:13
Jade Pett
Oh, I can't ever remember. I you know, I want to say that I would manually put in, but you can't do that on Twitter. You can only do it on LinkedIn and Instagram. So that doesn't sound right.
00:10:32:16 - 00:11:00:29
Joyann Boyce
No, I think that was it. I think we used to post it, schedule it, post it, and then you had to go back and update it on the gris on it. Oh, those are painful days. Yeah, those were painful days, I think. Yeah, cause I remember we had a moment where we were looking for a scheduling platform that had the ability to add alt text when we scheduled it.
00:11:01:02 - 00:11:05:09
Jade Pett
That was a journey.
00:11:05:11 - 00:11:19:10
Joyann Boyce
We have tried many, many tools. I'm glad to see it's becoming more of a thing now. I'm a bit annoyed because even when I still look at some tools, they don't mention it in like the list of features when you're comparing them.
00:11:19:12 - 00:11:22:24
Jade Pett
Yeah, and it's an important feature.
00:11:22:27 - 00:11:53:27
Joyann Boyce
It is because it makes your content accessible, but also it's another layer of copywriting. And if you have to go and do that after the fact, you have to rethink what is relevant in the description to the copy that you're writing. And social media managers and content creators have it hard enough coming up with copy. So what are some tips you would give individuals for writing alt text for social?
00:11:53:29 - 00:12:13:20
Jade Pett
So I think going back to what we just talking about, getting comfortable with describing people can be really important there’s been loads of good resources we've seen about, for instance, I remember one where there was a blind person and they wrote that everyone just assumes that they're white when they're not because people don't write in their alt text, they don't describe their physicality and how they look.
00:12:13:27 - 00:12:33:20
Jade Pett
So getting comfortable with describing people in as much detail as you can so that they can have a real understanding of who we're actually talking about. And also keeping your tone of voice. Like if you've got a funny tone of voice and you use humour to bring that into your old text. There's been lots of comedians I've seen that use alt text in a really clever and funny way.
00:12:33:23 - 00:12:38:05
Jade Pett
I know that you've talked as well. I can't remember her name. She was on the podcast.
00:12:38:05 - 00:13:02:19
Joyann Boyce
Jess Joy, the other Joy the other Joy that’s been on the podcast, Joy's alt text. We'll link in the description for her stuff. Had me cracking up. Sometimes I would read her captions and wait to laugh because I needed to read the alt text. Just see how she described the video. Yeah, love Joy. But yeah, that is so valid. Keeping that tone of voice and keeping that that element.
00:13:02:21 - 00:13:32:21
Joyann Boyce
And just to double on the describing individuals, one tip I have seen from the disabled community on alt texts is that keep it relevant. So sometimes people describe things that aren't necessarily relevant to the whole context of it, and they will describe every single detail in the images, like actually the what you're talking about is the person I want you to describe the person, because on most platforms they do limit the number of characters for alt texts.
00:13:32:24 - 00:13:36:00
Jade Pett
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:36:02 - 00:13:36:14
Joyann Boyce
Which is a.
00:13:36:14 - 00:13:38:16
Jade Pett
Bane of my life.
00:13:38:18 - 00:13:50:19
Joyann Boyce
And they're bit crafty. Just a future projection on my part. I can see AI having an impact in alt text description and I don't know if it's going to be a good thing.
00:13:50:21 - 00:14:12:27
Jade Pett
Yeah, I think coming back to that relevance you were just talking about as well, like it can be so tempting to just kind of scan an image and just kind of pick out the key points when sometimes it's the subtleties. Like if someone's smiling at a camera, that's a good detail to include that says something about them. If they're talking, if they're waving their hands around, these are things that like might not seem important but actually give a lot of context.
00:14:12:29 - 00:14:16:03
Joyann Boyce
And I didn't think AI is going to pick up on those things.
00:14:16:05 - 00:14:16:28
Jade Pett
No.
00:14:17:00 - 00:14:42:21
Joyann Boyce
No, that that's a that's a future episode. That's not giving me an idea for an episode about how AI impacts inclusive marketing. Because yes, that will be interesting. But yes, alt text is another way to be inclusive with your social media content, trying your best to create it as you're creating the content and not leaving that last minute, especially on those image heavy platforms like Instagram.
00:14:42:24 - 00:15:08:14
Joyann Boyce
As far as I'm aware, last time I checked, all social platforms have the ability to add alt texts in terms of the scheduling tools. They don't always have the ability to allow you to add alt text when you're scheduling. The big ones that we've engaged with your Hootsuite does, I think Agora Pulse does and we're currently using Loomly that allows you to adult text as well.
00:15:08:17 - 00:15:44:03
Joyann Boyce
If the platform you're using to schedule tools does not, message them and ask because it might be a feature that they just don't advertise and they're not making obvious because not everyone thinks about accessibility. Unfortunately. Now the other element in a lot of social media marketing, it kind of crosses over with influencer marketing and we had a really good podcast where Charlotte, which will link below and Charlotte is an influencer as well as manages other influences and that is an element that it could be debated.
00:15:44:03 - 00:16:03:00
Joyann Boyce
But I do think influencer marketing has grown to be its own niche in itself, but it's still sits within social media marketing it’s still a subsection of it, and when approaching social media marketing and using influencers, I think a lot of people forget they can be inclusive and diverse in their marketing.
00:16:04:15 - 00:16:28:10
Joyann Boyce
And they can include influencers from a range of backgrounds. I know we've done some research for clients in the past where we've gone to find those influencers that they could engage with and really look at like, you know, I think what was a niche we were looking at influencers who were Black women and either Black gaming was one we've done in the past.
00:16:28:12 - 00:16:43:26
Joyann Boyce
We always look for Black women. I'm now, as I'm going through the list in my head, but I know we've also looked for influencer disabled gaming influencers. We've looked for. I think there was a niche one cyclists.
00:16:44:27 - 00:16:52:03
Joyann Boyce
Yeah, that was a that was an interest in the cycling community. They...
00:16:52:06 - 00:16:57:17
Jade Pett
They’re dedicated.
00:16:57:19 - 00:17:24:24
Joyann Boyce
They are passionate, that is. That's one of my favourite things about the work we do. We get to go into subgenres, of subgenres, of subgenres. It's like cycling is already a community and then we're diving into look at the inclusive cycling network and then the network within the network. What are what tips would you say would help people find inclusive influencers?
00:17:24:26 - 00:17:48:28
Jade Pett
I think having the patience to look properly, to not just go for the big names, don't go for the big numbers, actually sit down and look at the engagement, look at your options. I suppose because they're out there, you just need to find them and I mean there’s agencies. That's a really good, great way of finding them, but also just dedicating that hour to really looking and letting yourself go down the rabbit hole.
00:17:49:04 - 00:17:57:28
Jade Pett
I think, I remember many an hour going down rabbit holes looking for influencers and that's, that's the way to do it. In my personal opinion.
00:17:57:28 - 00:18:31:12
Joyann Boyce
The way to do is, it is a rabbit hole. But once you do it, you have them like the, the list of rabbit hole influencers and subject matters. I will always remember my very, very first client. Social media marketing was a picture frame company and the rabbit hole I went down and picture framing. I will always remember that I never use masking tape on the back of your pictures. Top tip. It erodes the picture quality.
00:18:31:14 - 00:18:33:07
Joyann Boyce
But anyhow.
00:18:33:09 - 00:18:34:06
Jade Pett
Now we know.
00:18:34:08 - 00:19:03:18
Joyann Boyce
Now we know that was a free extra random tip for you there. So our top tips for inclusive social media marketing is stock photos. Be specific when you're searching, make sure that you describe what you're looking for. Don't just rely on the algorithm to show you because algorithms are biased and don't platform in sexual representation. Use inclusive illustrations, they’re out there, in every subsection you can.
00:19:03:20 - 00:19:22:21
Joyann Boyce
It will help. And once you have it, you have it and you can use it again and again. We all know social media marketing is about loving to have evergreen content. When looking for influencers to partner with for social content, take the time to search. Don't just look at the numbers. Think about, you know, who the audience reaches.
00:19:22:21 - 00:19:52:14
Joyann Boyce
Think about their engagement rate. And if you need to use an agency. There are agencies out there that specialise in influencers from diverse backgrounds. The tools one, if I have the tools out there, can help you. Obviously, we're going to highly recommend Inclued AI to help with this area. We have a hub. We have a bunch of resources that you can access to help make an inclusive marketing in social media a lot easier.
00:19:52:16 - 00:20:16:28
Joyann Boyce
But when you're looking for any kind of social media scheduling tool in general, make sure it has these elements. Or if they don't have it and you're already using it to ask them for it because they can provide it. All the platforms do have it as well. So that was just a high level. On how to make your social media marketing more inclusive.
00:20:17:00 - 00:20:20:06
Joyann Boyce
Let the people know where they can find you, Jade.
00:20:20:09 - 00:20:25:24
Jade Pett
You can find me on LinkedIn at Jade Pett, that's a P E double T.
00:20:25:27 - 00:20:51:11
Joyann Boyce
Fantastic and all the things we've mentioned will be linked below. Thank you for joining me on the Marketing Made Inclusive podcast. I am your host, Joyann Boyce. You can find me on all social networks at the Joyann Boyce that is J O Y and B O Y C E. Tune in next week for all things inclusive marketing.
