Ep 27: How to Market Yourself Inclusively with Teresa Heath-Wareing
Shownotes
Join us in this episode as we delve into a thought-provoking discussion on diversity in conferences, the portrayal of bodies in marketing, strategies for marketing yourself, and the process of unlearning corporate marketing practices.
Our guest Theresa Heath-Wareing shares her insights and experiences, shedding light on the importance of inclusivity and redefining traditional marketing norms.
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Transcript
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:16:17
Joyann Boyce
Welcome and welcome back to the Marketing made in classic podcast. I have an amazing guest this week and we're kind of swapping roles because last time we spoke I was on her podcast, now she's on mine. I don't think I had one back then either.
00:00:16:19 - 00:00:18:18
Teresa Heath-Wareing
No, I don’t think you did.
00:00:18:21 - 00:00:25:06
Joyann Boyce
Anywhos, I'm welcoming Teresa to the podcast. Teresa Heath-Wareing, did I say it right?
00:00:25:08 - 00:00:28:05
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Wearing, but it's fine, don't worry.
00:00:28:07 - 00:00:38:20
Joyann Boyce
It's always the first thing is either my dyslexia and I'm just like, oh no, let me correct myself. But yes, Teresa, let our amazing audience know a little bit about you and what you do.
00:00:38:22 - 00:01:03:14
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Well, first off, thank you for having me on. I am very excited to have this conversation with you. I am, I guess, a marketeer. That is what my job has been for a very long time. I did a degree in marketing almost 20 years ago, which is just like, really? Am I really that old? And then from there I did kind of every marketing role you can imagine.
00:01:03:14 - 00:01:11:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I worked for teeny tiny companies. Where we had no budget, no team, and I used to do fax campaigns, that’s it, you heard it right fax.
00:01:11:00 – 0:01:13:00
Joyann Boyce
Facts? Like checking?
0:01:13:00 - 00:01:38:03
Teresa Heath-Wareing
No, no, no. As in a fax machine. Right. So, if people think email marketing is annoying, could you even imagine? And we, I worked for a car company that basically sold cars to dealers all over the country, and we would send them a price list which basically listed every single car we had available, which was hundreds and the price of them.
00:01:38:03 - 00:02:07:13
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Right. And some details and said those pages could be anything up to like ten, 15 pages long. So, you'd be sat there in your office and suddenly your fax machine would start checking out pages after pages, after pages, after pages, like, could you even imagine that kind of marketing back in the day. So yeah, I did that, I did events, I did like the normal brochure stuff, the direct mail that I've literally done everything.
00:02:07:15 - 00:02:36:05
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And I worked for a huge company. I worked for Landrover, I used to do corporate marketing for them. And then like I said, I work for teeny tiny companies where I had to do everything and we didn't have graphic designers or copywriters or that sort of good thing. And then about nine years ago I joke and said I have an early midlife crisis and decided that as a single parent, recently single parent with a four-year-old and a mortgage to pay, I was handed my notice and my very well-paid marketing job.
00:02:36:05 - 00:02:55:18
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I was head of marketing for an agency and start my own business right, which I had never ever wanted to do. I was not an entrepreneur type. I had never thought, oh, I know what would be fun. I was a complete kind of like, I loved being an employee. I love people putting on the hat and tell me I've done a good job.
00:02:55:20 - 00:03:16:22
Teresa Heath-Wareing
But I think with that massive shift in my life, I'd been with my ex-husband for like 12 years. And I think that big shift in my life just made me, I obviously did something and made me look at everything. And I left my current role and I started doing marketing for other people. So, I started as like a consultancy and then I kind of done for you.
00:03:16:24 - 00:03:45:06
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And basically, I was the marketing manager that people couldn't afford to bring in house. They couldn't afford to have a marketing manager at that level in-house. So, they would bring me in like a day or two. And I worked with all these different companies and I thought it was lovely and I loved it. But of course I was a single parent to a four year old who just started school and I was running myself ragged like I was the one that would run in at the beginning of the day, the last turn, and throw her through the door and run out, like literally elbowing the other parents out the way.
00:03:45:08 - 00:03:59:15
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And then I'd be the last one to pick up at the end of the day. And I honestly thought, how on earth does anybody get stuff done in these hours? And anyway, we made some changes and she had a different school and did longer hours, and that's the thing. But also, I started to look at what I was doing in my business.
00:03:59:15 - 00:04:23:19
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And although I did enjoy having the agency and I did, and by this point I started to bring on a team and I just find that they wanted me like all the time. The agency was built on me. I used to. I started speaking at this point, so when someone started working with me, they wanted me. They didn't want one of the other team and it went from having like one boss when I was employed to having my 18 bosses.
00:04:23:21 - 00:04:40:15
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And then what was amazing is I was getting picked up to speak and I was traveling and I was going to the States and then they were getting really funny with me, like, you know, you’re never hear anymore and this is so annoying and blah blah blah, and even just like jokey comments. And I just thought, I don't think I can do this anymore.
00:04:40:15 - 00:05:04:20
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Like, and I started to see this online world and thought, what if I could help more people who are definitely not in the position to get any marketing support? And what if I can do that internationally and from home and through my computer? And I started to watch other people and see what they did. And about two years after I stopped my business, I went to my now husband.
00:05:04:22 - 00:05:25:13
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I got remarried and said to him, You know how you know, we've created this nice agency and we're bringing in good money? Any chance I can fire my clients and go back to scratch again? And he luckily had way more faith in me than maybe I did. And we did. So, then I started my online business, which was like starting a brand-new business all over again because again, my email list was not the right email list.
00:05:25:13 - 00:05:43:13
Teresa Heath-Wareing
My followers were not the right followers because I had people who wanted me to physically do the work for them. Whereas what I wanted to do was work with people who didn't have the budget. They were starting off on their own or, you know, they were just them and they didn't necessarily have the budget, they just needed some support and do that.
00:05:43:13 - 00:06:03:12
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, I had to basically stop the entire thing. But from then on till now, I have had an online business. I help amazing business owners who have gone on to do huge things and, or they've managed to build a business that fits around their family in their life and they love it. So yeah, that's kind of what I do in a nutshell.
00:06:03:14 - 00:06:05:23
Joyann Boyce
That is a journey. Wow.
00:06:06:00 - 00:06:09:06
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I know, it felt it.
00:06:09:08 - 00:06:21:24
Joyann Boyce
I relate so many levels, but in smaller case. I remember when we started expanding our team in in social media management agency. I don't there's something I'm not liking about this. I don't know what it is. And then.
00:06:21:24 - 00:06:23:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
It’s hard.
00:06:22:00 – 00:06:23:00
Joyann Boyce
It’s hard.
00:06:23:00 - 00:06:40:14
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And I wanted an agency like, I don't know about you, but when I first started, I dreamed of the days where I would have, because I, I worked for Landrover. We were the biggest, the best agencies in the country, right? So, I'd been to their offices in London and seen their bean bags and their snooker tables and their slides and all this stuff.
00:06:40:14 - 00:06:55:19
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And I had got visions of that's what I'm going to have. I'm going to have the big team; I'm going to have this. And then I started to realise that actually that might be someone else's dream, but that's not my mine. I didn't want all that because I'm such a control freak that I find it so difficult to handle anything else.
00:06:55:21 - 00:07:09:24
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And, and actually I enjoyed the helping them, but I didn't want to do that done for you anymore. Yeah, but that bit where you started to expand and bring other people in is, is tough. It's really tough.
00:07:10:01 - 00:07:32:02
Joyann Boyce
It's so hard, especially when you can see the thing in a certain way. And when it sounds like cause you've done so many roles, you have a similarity to me where you may not have specialised in the thing, but you can see what's off in it. And if they can't, I'm like, why can't you see this tiny? And I just kept going back and forth, okay, they're going to learn and adapt, but they still need to do that the way we do it.
00:07:32:02 - 00:07:44:05
Joyann Boyce
Because your face and your name is on it. It's a different type of pressure, but it sounds amazing. I've met some of the people you coached at the conference that you had recently and you've honestly changed lives.
00:07:44:09 - 00:08:12:09
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Oh, thank you. I love it. Oh, and I love that because I adore what I do. And I think there are lots of people out there who call themselves a coach or, you know, mentors to people or whatever. And there's a lot of rewards there, if I'm honest. And also from a diversity standpoint, there's a lot of white, straight males who, who for me, when I first started in this industry, I was totally bought into them.
00:08:12:09 - 00:08:38:13
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I was totally bought into they said, I've got to do it this way. This is the way I've got to do it. And it took me probably a year to two years to go, oh, hang on a minute. Their life and them are nothing like me. So, when they're telling me to get up at 5 a.m. and do the magic morning or whatever, Miracle Morning and they and I have a what probably would have been more like a seven-year-old by then.
00:08:38:14 - 00:08:59:18
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Like, yeah, no, that isn't going to be right for me, you know, or they just, they just couldn't relate. And the other thing was they didn't want to they were so straight minded of like; this is the way you do it. This is how you should show up. This is the kind of language you should use. This is the, the systems and the processes and that this is how you should be on social media.
00:08:59:20 - 00:09:16:05
Teresa Heath-Wareing
They didn't even want to start to think about how someone might differ and not just from a actually, you know, they were a male and I'm a female or they don't have children and I have children. But literally any nuance of difference, they weren't interested.
00:09:16:07 - 00:09:45:10
Joyann Boyce
They weren't there for it. And I think there's another element of you being a coach, having that marketing experience, because a lot of things, especially with small businesses, and people, they get annoyed at me sometimes because 95% of the time I'm like, marketing is the solution to that problem. Like almost every problem I see in the world, I'm like, but it's the way to like, the way they marketed it is what made it go so wrong or the misunderstanding. They’re like, marketing isn’t the answer to everything and I’m like yes it is.
00:09:45:12 - 00:10:06:05
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yes. The other thing is, when you are working with a business owner who is, they are the marketeer, they are the person, they are everything, not only are you going your marketing wrong or you're doing it the wrong way, you are specifically saying you are doing it the wrong way or you are showing up wrong or you are not.
00:10:06:07 - 00:10:28:11
Teresa Heath-Wareing
It's a really personal thing. Whereas in one way I really enjoyed working with big companies because it was never that personal and therefore it was always very easy in the sense it wasn't very easy. It's not easy, but, but it was like I could say, you know, that campaign is not working. Let's try this campaign. And also, people could be like, especially product-based stuff.
00:10:28:11 - 00:10:55:20
Teresa Heath-Wareing
We've got an amazing product. This is what awesome by our products. But when you are speaking with someone who they're a graphic designer or they're, you know, a social media expert or they're the speaker or whatever, you are not only saying what you've chose to do is wrong, but you're also saying you're showing up wrong or you're, you know, because that the thing that they're selling and you've got to give them the confidence to go, you know what, I'm really flippin’ good at this thing.
00:10:55:22 - 00:11:16:22
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Or you know what? I am happy to show up this way because I know I can follow through on it. So, it's so, there's so many, and in and in another way, it's so much easier to do with one person because only on the big company. Man, I remember doing a campaign for Landrover and it was because we were corporate Landrover.
00:11:16:22 - 00:11:37:19
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, we went the retail side and I put together this whole thing with one of the agencies about. It, it was a, it was a brochure on having a Landrover as a company car, basically, and we decided to make this really thick, almost indestructible material, probably not very eco-friendly. This was many, many years ago, but really strong material.
00:11:37:19 - 00:12:00:14
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And the headline on it was ‘Take your Business Anywhere,’ i.e., you can pretty much take a Landrover anywhere because of the fact it's off road and blah blah blah. Anyway, this campaign took months to put together months. And you know what? At the very last moment the whole thing went to legal. They turned it down. They said, you can't have the headline ‘Take your Business Anywhere.’
00:12:00:16 - 00:12:17:10
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And the whole thing was based on, you know, we're tough, you can go anywhere with us and all that sort of thing. So, so like I said, there are good and bad bits of both of working with, you know, working with big companies that work with individuals. But it's understanding, I guess, my approach to those things when I do it.
00:12:17:12 - 00:12:32:04
Joyann Boyce
And the differences between them. Speaking of small business. I think that leads some my second question, but I'll do my first one first. What does inclusive marketing mean to you, considering you have such a broad marketing experience?
00:12:32:06 - 00:12:54:18
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, it's, it's a really good question. And you know what? Like before you came on my podcast and you were the first person to come on and talk about inclusivity and marketing and, and how all that fits together. And I, if you'd asked me, then I'd have been terrified to answer. I'd been terrified to answer because I wouldn't want to get it wrong and it wouldn't be out of trying to get it wrong.
00:12:54:18 - 00:13:02:10
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And it would be that genuine, like, I don't want to mess this up, but I think for me it's about being able to.
00:13:02:10 - 00:13:20:24
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And even now I'm a little bit nervous saying it, but I think it's about being able to identify or see or relate to the marketing. And sometimes that marketing won't be, I guess, wholly inclusive based on who their customers are.
00:13:21:01 - 00:14:01:05
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And sometimes I we, we can debate this point and that's fine, but sometimes that might be okay because it's not if a product or service or whatever isn't designed for a certain type of person, then that it doesn't have to show that inclusivity. But if the product or service can be for a type or many types of people, then that marketing has to demonstrate that and as their potential customer, I have to whoever I am and whatever my background is, whatever my ethnicity is, sexuality, whatever it might be, I need to be able to look at that and go, oh, I belong here and I'm represented here.
00:14:01:09 - 00:14:05:04
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So that's my answer. Hopefully it's okay.
00:14:05:06 - 00:14:31:00
Joyann Boyce
No, that's the thing about it, because marketing in itself is so nuanced and so many layers. Inclusive marketing is that as well. And I think you nailed it on the head in terms of you have to feel something, but I am 100% on board with inclusive marketing doesn't mean including everyone. There's exclusion in there because I think I mentioned in the conference, you're not going to market gluten bread to gluten free individuals.
00:14:31:00 - 00:14:51:02
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Exactly. And then I very rudely, couldn’t help myself, shouted out because I'm gluten free. And they were like, you know, they don’t, they don't like, they don’t like read, I do like bread. I love bread. I would love bread, but I just can't have it. But people, right? Like, no, every product and service is going to be for them and that's okay.
00:14:51:04 - 00:15:20:18
Teresa Heath-Wareing
But if it is available to a diverse audience, you've got to show that because otherwise and you know, we had a fascinating conversation on our table about a about a conference that's coming up. And they just looked at their line-up and they, they don't have any diversity on their line-up. And the guy who the guy who is organising it is Indian.
00:15:20:20 - 00:15:37:12
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And so, I was like, Well, aren't you in the line-up? And he's like, No, I'm not speaking. So first I thought, well, there’s something wrong there because you, you should be speaking. But anyway, and so he's like, but I don't care that there isn't diversity. So, does that mean it's okay? And I was like, and by the way, we did not come up with a solution for this.
00:15:37:12 - 00:16:05:15
Teresa Heath-Wareing
It was just a discussion, but it was really fascinating that he was saying, because what he was trying to do as a speaker was get the best speakers. And it's, it's a particular conference about a particular thing. Right. So, he wanted to make sure they get the best speakers. So, then he said to me, well, should I have someone who's not a very good speaker just because, you know, they meet a quota or a criteria or whatever?
00:16:05:15 - 00:16:26:09
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And I'm like, well, no, because as a as an event organiser, your job is about really events and you can't put up terrible speakers just to go look, you know. So, so we had this conversation and then we kind of had the conversation of, well, why is there no People of Colour who are speakers on this particular subject?
00:16:26:11 - 00:16:49:20
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Is it because they don't see other People of Colour doing it? And therefore, you know, and I actually we talked about the event we were at because he and it was marketed live and they do a dice score, which I have to say didn't know a huge amount about and I got educated about this. But he scored as high as you could get on the disco in terms of you know, how inclusive and diverse the event was.
00:16:49:22 - 00:17:15:04
Teresa Heath-Wareing
But I know he works very hard to find those speakers, to find speakers that are excellent speakers, as well as maybe being able to give a diverse line-up. So it was almost a case of, I think and I like I said, I don't think we came up with an answer, but it's almost a case of you do have to go out there and you will have to work a bit harder to find people because there are going to be people.
00:17:15:04 - 00:17:51:24
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And I'm not saying just pick the first person you find just to go well done, it is about you do want that calibre of speakers, you do want that quality. However, you're going to have to work a bit harder and search people out. I and the more you see people and it is a bit the same for me and I see, you know, you must have a similar story where I live in a larger body, I've done for a very long time and I used to go to the States to lots of conferences when I first started my business and all the people I saw were mainly white males, straight males or white females who were very
00:17:51:24 - 00:18:17:09
Teresa Heath-Wareing
slim, stunning looking like stunning looking women. Right. And I remember thinking, I can't I can't be a speaker. I can't stand on that stage in the body I'm in. And also because of all the many things that are in my own view of the world, based on my experience, it was people won't take me seriously. People won't look at me and think I know what I'm talking about because I can't even control my weight like all these things.
00:18:17:13 - 00:18:37:09
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And then I went to a conference and stood on the stage with Amy Porterfield when she lived in a larger body, which she doesn't now, which cool. Great. You know, but she lived in a larger body. And I looked at her and thought, I can do that. And I because I saw an example of it. And you know, what was so funny is her and I, we've now become friends, which is lovely.
00:18:37:09 - 00:18:51:02
Teresa Heath-Wareing
But I was having a coffee with her years back and she said to me that someone had said to her, someone needs to see you do this to know that they have permission, that it can be done. And I said, and that was me.
00:18:51:07 - 00:18:51:22
Joyann Boyce
And that was the result of that.
00:18:51:22 - 00:19:13:03
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I was that person. So now I'm the one who's going on stage saying to people, and it doesn't have to be. I don't actually say it's okay if you live in a larger body to speak, but the fact that I'm showing up, you know, so we do need to find and identify these, you know, the diversity in that line up to make sure that people see and go, oh, yeah, no, no, I can do that.
00:19:13:05 - 00:19:29:24
Joyann Boyce
There's so many elements to it, but I just want to touch on the way you just phrase that living in the larger body. I haven't heard that before and I'm, I'm going to add it to our terminology dictionary because it is such a accurate time phrasing.
00:19:30:05 - 00:19:31:07
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Mm hmm.
00:19:31:09 - 00:19:43:21
Joyann Boyce
And it, it just, it clicked in my brain so solid and it's such a accurate way. If you were describing someone to put context to it, like the last time I saw them, they were looking at a larger body.
00:19:44:00 - 00:19:45:02
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yes. Yeah.
00:19:45:02 - 00:19:47:19
Joyann Boyce
It's just it's kind of like factual structuring.
00:19:47:21 - 00:20:08:21
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And it feels for someone who does it feels nicer to say that like and I'm not trying to, like, sugarcoat it. I'm not trying to go you know, it's not nice to say someone's fat or overweight because, you know, I have a young daughter who, you know, who’s now 13 going on 23. But like when she was little, she would say things and people go, oh, you can't say that.
00:20:08:21 - 00:20:31:05
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And I'm like, well, no, you're not wrong like I am fatter, I am overweight. You're not lying. You're telling truth. But it's not always nice to say that about people. But like you said, it's, you know, that's the situation I am living in right now. But it doesn't mean that won't change. It doesn't mean that hopefully six months down the line, that might be different.
00:20:31:07 - 00:20:55:14
Joyann Boyce
Yeah, that's if, I had a whole other question. But that's interesting because when we are thinking about describing body in marketing and body representation. There's an element of your, the way your body is shaped sometimes can be identity and sometimes it's not. Like for myself, I'm six foot three, I will always be tall, so I don't mind someone describing me as tall.
00:20:55:16 - 00:20:55:24
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Mm hmm.
00:20:56:05 - 00:21:01:18
Joyann Boyce
But someone describing me as my hair doesn't make sense, because that's something that will change.
00:21:01:22 - 00:21:03:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah.
00:21:03:02 - 00:21:10:19
Joyann Boyce
And there's just so many elements of it where sometimes we attach things to people and see when it's a changeable thing, if they want it to change.
00:21:10:21 - 00:21:40:24
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah. Yeah. And, and like you said, it's, it's, that doesn't feel like a label. Whereas saying I'm fat or overweight feels like they go stuck a label on that's who you are like and like you said your height is not going to change hopefully because that would be something drastically different, you know? But like that is a kind of factor which is always going to be a fact, whereas someone's body shape and the body in which they live in can change depending on what happens in their world.
00:21:41:01 - 00:22:06:16
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And I do think there's a real negative connotation to when people say you're fat or overweight, that the words we naturally imply to those things are awful, like, and they don't feel nice. Whereas actually one thing that I've done myself and a lot of my education has been around reasons, and I have reasons why I live in a larger body and it has nothing to do with calories in and calories out.
00:22:06:16 - 00:22:27:08
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Nothing to do with that. Like I have done. And I could bore you and tell you all the many millions of tests and things I've had done. But for whatever reason, my body still holds onto the weight that it's got no matter what I do. So actually, so many of those connotations are wrong. They are not correct when it comes to me.
00:22:27:10 - 00:22:44:11
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And that actually has nothing to do with my size. Like, you know, I don't eat an excessive amount like people might imagine. You know, I don't exercise an excess of my either, but neither do lots of people that maybe live in a smaller body like, you know, and I just think there's so much more.
00:22:44:11 - 00:22:56:10
Teresa Heath-Wareing
like I think any work in inclusion and diversity makes me understand the difference in people and makes me have a very much more open minded.
00:22:56:12 - 00:23:00:11
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I don't want to be sympathetic. That's not the right word. I can't think of the. It is an empathetic.
00:23:00:15 - 00:23:02:00
Joyann Boyce
Yeah, a connection.
00:23:02:02 - 00:23:10:03
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah. That actually what I see on the surface is nothing compared to what it might be like. Go on.
00:23:10:05 - 00:23:23:16
Joyann Boyce
I was just going to say, I'm curious to know, because you mentioned Amy Porterfield, Amy Porterfield does a lot of things. There's an element of when you're marketing yourself, you have to look at yourself all the time.
00:23:23:16 - 00:23:27:08
Teresa Heath-Wareing
The time, not even kidding.
00:23:27:10 - 00:23:53:19
Joyann Boyce
There's images of me that I'm just like, oh, I really want to retire that one, but it's still coming up. But you have to look at yourself all the time. How have you approach, has that impacted your marketing in any way and how you market yourself, considering what the stereotypical look mainly in America, the stereotypical if you type in oh, it's normally that confidence coach and all this.
00:23:53:21 - 00:23:59:13
Joyann Boyce
Normally any time there's a coach and it's a woman the stereotype is that it's in emotions and men are doing business.
00:23:59:15 - 00:24:00:05
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah.
00:24:00:07 - 00:24:04:14
Joyann Boyce
Which is frustrating but yeah. And how did you approach marketing yourself?
00:24:04:16 - 00:24:30:08
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So again, I looked to those experts, right? So, I suddenly then went and got all the photo shoots like I literally had a photo every six months and it was perfect. And they were highly edited and I wanted to look perfect because that's the way that it was shown. Not only that, how the angles I was shot at, the types of images I had, I was really strict about.
00:24:30:08 - 00:24:51:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, you know, head and shoulders always, very rarely would I show my full body. If, I had an amazing photographer in the States, actually, who is lovely, lovely guy, but he would know what angles to put me in to make my body look smaller, which in one way I don't mind because I don't want to look.
00:24:51:00 – 00:24:52:00
Joyann Boyce
You want to look your best.
00:24:51:00 - 00:24:52:11
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I don't want to look worse than I could look like.
00:24:52:13 - 00:25:13:17
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah, yeah. But I know a lot of the photos that I chose or didn't chose were down to how I felt about my body. And then I, and you know what it did for my business which is fascinating because I wanted such perfection, that's all people saw and they didn't seem as relatable.
00:25:13:19 - 00:25:49:17
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Huh. So, and I like nice things, right? So, I have a nice camera set up. I have a lovely office. I if I can afford to or get enough points if I fly, we do it business class like I like nice things. That's me and who I am. Which is kind of ironic given the upbringing I had. But anyway, so I think what they saw was this very polished, perfect looking, you know, great website, wonderful social media, really nicely designed stuff because I had all the people in to come and do stuff like I had the great podcast editor, I had the great graphic designer, like I had someone build my website from day one.
00:25:49:17 - 00:26:10:14
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I never, I never went through the stages of me doing all that stuff myself because I looked at those people and went, That's what I need to replicate. And then as time has gone on, I've realised that actually that has done no favours to my brand because I am very approachable, I'm very human. I laugh at myself a lot.
00:26:10:14 - 00:26:33:13
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I'm silly. I'm, you know, I am not this perfect person I make out. And when people get to know me, they realise like, I'm just like really nice and normal. But I wasn't showing that. I was showing this, you know, hands on hip, perfect smile. And don't get me wrong, I've still got those them out there. So, what I started doing was I started showing up on Instagram stories and showing.
00:26:33:15 - 00:26:50:22
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And in fact, I made a whole point of going, I'm no longer using filters because even though I used a very gentle filter, I did use a filter. And it smoothed that my eyes and it made my teeth probably whiter than they were. And one day I went, I'm not doing this anymore. This is my face. This is how I look; this is what you're getting.
00:26:50:24 - 00:27:05:12
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And then a few weeks back, and it was only a few weeks back, I had I'd started to do some stuff, I'd done some embodiment work, I'd worked with another coach and I thought we were going to work about business. And she went, we're going to work about your body. And I don't want to talk about anybody like she.
00:27:05:12 - 00:27:23:20
Teresa Heath-Wareing
When you literally show up from here up, you, and I actually said the words, I ignore the rest of that. And she's like, while you're doing that, you are never going to show up as your true self. You can't do that. This is the beginning of this year. So, I did a lot of work on embodiment and loving my body and that's a big, hard thing to do.
00:27:23:20 - 00:27:43:15
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Like if you're not happy with your body to love, it is like, no, are you kidding? So, there are many steps before I ever got to actually, I love your body and you're doing a great job for me. So anyway, I've done all this work and I went out to the Kajabi conference in Austin and they had one of these cameras that when all around you, right?
00:27:43:15 - 00:28:04:20
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah. I was like, I really want to go because the pictures look cool as hell, especially if you're moving. It's slo-mo as well. But you are literally going to see every inch of my body from every angle. And I have never put a picture up of that before. Like I'd never shown even a front angle. I'd always.
00:28:04:22 - 00:28:07:15
Joyann Boyce
Did you give people briefs, like, because if you've hired all these
00:28:07:15 - 00:28:08:16
Teresa Heath-Wareing
people.
00:28:08:18 - 00:28:20:15
Joyann Boyce
And they helped you build the brand, they were obviously selecting shots. Did you give them a brief to say, I am a woman living in a larger body, don't do this? Or was it like, how did you control that?
00:28:20:17 - 00:28:46:15
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, I guess I sent them, to the photographers, I always sent them images that I liked and I'd always gone for Amy's because Amy was very strict about what images went out, again never a full body one. Another person I looked at time is Megan Hyatt Miller, who's Michael Hyatt's daughter and she again lived in a larger body at the time and had very strategic photos.
00:28:46:17 - 00:29:18:12
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, I think I never really gave them the option. And if they did choose something, I would always be a bit like, ooh, not sure I like that. But on occasions a few would slip by and a few and in fact it was okay. But you know, the funny thing I laugh a lot. I smile a lot. Like so I have this, loads of images of me literally like, like my wide-open laughing and I wouldn't let them go out because, like, I might have a slightly double chin or it was like, I can literally see your tonsils like thing.
00:29:18:14 - 00:29:35:01
Teresa Heath-Wareing
But the thing was that picture was portraying so much. And then and like I said, it was weird because it all kind of happened at the beginning of this year that I then started working with a social media manager who got me really quickly. And she's she was with me yesterday, Becky. You know, I mean, she's amazing. And we got to the point, I was like, Becky, I don't need to prove stuff.
00:29:35:01 - 00:29:54:15
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And I gave her a link, stupidly, but bravely to all of my images, right? Every photo she had done, every image of me speaking, which again is always a tricky one. And I'm very like all know that's never seen the light of day, you know. So, and she started putting images up and I'm like, oh my goodness.
00:29:54:15 - 00:30:10:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Like, and she's like, I love this one of you. It's brilliant. And I would think, Oh, I would never have chose that in a million years. But I started to let them go and think, well, if you like them, then great. So anyway, I did the Kajabi thing and I said to them, I really want to do this, but I'm really nervous.
00:30:10:00 - 00:30:24:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And I was really honest with this guy. I was like, this would be a massive step for me to is like, listen, you can do it. It never needs to see the day of light like you could do. If you hate it, I'll send you a file gets sent to you, you decide what to do. So, I said, I've got this idea.
00:30:24:00 - 00:30:58:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
What if I do a story like hold my phone and talk to my phone as the things happening? So, I did the story saying, There's this machine, I'm having it that moment you may or may not see the outcome of this like and I actually did the story and sent the story out. I and then and what also had happened during all this stuff, it was like the universe kept delivering me stuff, but I had listen to a podcast of Bryony Gordon and she had been interviewed by Rangan Chatterjee, Doctor Rangan Chatterjee and he had said, you, she does love body positivity and he said, you know, how did you get to love your body, how do you get to be so positive
00:30:58:00 - 00:31:14:21
Teresa Heath-Wareing
be so positive and love it and want to show off. And she said, I don't, but I'm tired of hating on it. I'm tired of treating it terribly and I just thought, you know what? It's me. If you meet me in real life and I am a speaker, so you do see me like that's what I look like.
00:31:14:21 - 00:31:34:13
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, I did. And I went and put that up and I got loads of lovely comments, which is lovely, and that's not the reason I was doing it. But so that was like my first step and then the next one was brilliant. So, Bryony Gordon has written many books and I have got some stuff coming up soon where I'm doing a new podcast on a completely different subject and I really wanted her to be a guest.
00:31:34:15 - 00:31:56:03
Teresa Heath-Wareing
The Bryony Gordon is a Telegraph' journalist. She has interviewed Prince Harry. She has a Telegraph podcast like, this woman is really, really well known. I tried to get hold of her, couldn't quite get through to her, so she put up on her Instagram stories that she was doing her beach big body confidence beach day out is what she called it.
00:31:56:05 - 00:32:13:04
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And basically, she said that she wants women to go to a beach in their swimwear and just be super confident about it. So, I thought, oh, this could be my end to get in front of Bryony to have a conversation with her. So, I applied. So, you had to apply to be picked because they only had limited spaces.
00:32:13:04 - 00:32:38:06
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, my first thought was foul applied. Probably won't get it. Few days later get an email back, you’ve got a space. Right? So, I was like okay, that's cool. But and it said, if you can't make it, you need to let us know by whatever. So, I thought I can drop it at any point. Right? So, then they did a competition with curvy Kate who does plus size swimwear and underwear and who by the way are excellent body advocates in terms of their branding and their design.
00:32:38:06 - 00:32:48:02
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And that' sort of stuff. So, they did this competition and I thought, I'll just go for it. You know, I need some swimwear. Well, who doesn't? You know, let's not say no end to the competition.
00:32:48:08 - 00:32:48:16
Joyann Boyce
Got it.
00:32:48:17 - 00:33:11:24
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I won, right? There was no way on this earth I couldn't go now. So, I then have my daughter. So, I emailed Bryony saying, I'm so sorry, I'm booked for this thing. I have my daughter would that be okay. Thinking if she says no, great, that's my way out. And she's like, Yeah, that's fine. So, me and my daughter drive down to Brighton.
00:33:11:24 - 00:33:29:23
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I live in Shropshire. It's like 5 hours’ drive down to Brighton to meet Bryony Gordon and there was like 30 odd other people there. So, all get into our swimwear. So, we had a few talks and it was lovely. Get into our swimwear, which again, like I said, I was one of the curvy, I think they, they'd done like three different people at one time.
00:33:30:00 - 00:33:48:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I'm in this curvy Kate somewhere, which I decided, again must have been out of my mind. She was like, what colours you want? And I had this great one that goes many different ways. And there was a red and a black and always would come black always. And I went, You know what? I've won a swimsuit. So, if I don't like it, I've not wasted my money.
00:33:48:02 - 00:34:09:07
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I'll go with the red one. So, there I am in this red swimsuit doing this thing of Bryony Gordon and because I won a swimsuit, say my photo of me in a swimsuit full length. No vetting, angles aren't good.
00:34:09:07 - 00:34:10:14
Joyann Boyce
I’m sweating for you.
00:34:10:16 - 00:34:38:09
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Honestly. Right goes on the curvy Kate's social media and in total they have 700,000 followers. And there I am in my swimwear. I nearly actually died. So, the day of the event I took a few stories and obviously I heavily vetted what went on there and I took a story of me and Bryony and the curvy Kate ambassador or the woman who works them.
00:34:38:11 - 00:34:55:01
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I'd taken a photo of me and my daughter both, all had shots and you know, I will confidently say I look great, had like I was really happy with how I looked. And then there was one of me at a distance, full length, and I thought, I've got to put if the whole point of me doing this is going, do you know what?
00:34:55:01 - 00:35:18:13
Teresa Heath-Wareing
We need to be honest about who we are and, and show up as we are and know that we can be accepted for that, then I've got to put a full length one up. So, I put this one up that I had chosen that obviously my daughter taken and it was from a distance and then curvy Kate put up all these pictures the next day and I literally was like, Oh my goodness, I want to die.
00:35:18:13 - 00:35:39:12
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I want to go and hide in my bed and not come out. But it was immense. And the amount of comments and the amount of conversations and the amount of thank you for doing that and being brave. And I loved that you could do that. Even yesterday at the conference, three different random people came up to me and were like, that was phenomenal.
00:35:39:14 - 00:35:52:21
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And I said, In all honesty, it makes me want to be sick. And then my social media manager said to me, I think we should do a proper post because I'd only put it on my story, say 24 hours gone. I think we should do a proper post about it because had written an email about it as well.
00:35:52:23 - 00:36:06:13
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, I said, I want to take what you write an email, I want to put it in a post, can I do that? And I was like, yeah, fine, yeah, whatever. Thinking I don't mind a bit on my Instagram. And again, I chose the pictures and I thought, she's doing a carousel. So, the first carousel was the head had one of me Bryony and the curvy Kate ladies.
00:36:06:13 - 00:36:09:16
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I thought I'd have to scroll to see the one of me in my swimming costume.
00:36:09:19 - 00:36:11:11
Joyann Boyce
And you're like, no one's going to scroll, it'll be fine.
00:36:11:11 - 00:36:33:06
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah, of course not. Right. So, then she does it, it goes and obviously because we schedule stuff ahead, I don't know when it's going out so my phone starts pinging and I'm like, of God, this stuff’s gone out and then I go to LinkedIn and there I am LinkedIn in my swimming costume body. Yeah.
00:36:33:07 - 00:36:43:23
Joyann Boyce
Full bodies. I love. This is so amazing because you are shifting the narrative of something that you were very consciously aware of how coaches market themselves.
00:36:44:02 - 00:36:44:22
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah.
00:36:44:24 - 00:37:05:06
Joyann Boyce
By force. And the universe is making you do it. It's shifting the dynamic of a coach who is a woman showing her full body, which is a thing that you don't even, I didn't even realise. I think I'm prone to it as well. I can't think of many full body shots. And my thing is just because I don't want people to know that I’m tall.
00:37:05:08 - 00:37:09:03
Joyann Boyce
And it's just it's a whole overcompensate, the strats I find.
00:37:09:05 - 00:37:24:04
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yes. But then they get focused on that, don't they? But I think and for some reason that's okay, right? Some reason someone would probably be very happy to have a conversation with you about how tall you are. But no one's going have a conversation with me as to why I live in a larger body, because that would be rude.
00:37:24:06 - 00:37:47:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
But why is it not rude that they would question or have a conversation about how tall you are, the world’s to whack. It's crazy. You know what I mean? Like I one things okay And the other things not okay but I think I think in my world and in the online space, the, the word authenticity and vulnerability are like handed out
00:37:47:11 - 00:38:14:21
Teresa Heath-Wareing
like flipping, get on an email address like have having a funnel and then not people are not authentic and then not vulnerable. They might think they are, but they're being it's a very curated view of vulnerability and authenticity. And it's like, you know, I know we're going slightly off subject here, but someone contacted me or one of my team and like have you seen so and so’s story, and I was like, no, I don't think I follow them.
00:38:15:02 - 00:38:37:17
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I'm very good at muting things and staying in my own lane, right? So, she says go and have a look. And she said to me and I and the reason she said it to me is because I'd had this conversation with my team member about my coach saying, vulnerability isn't you getting on Instagram crying, vulnerability is you going through something and then being very honest about what you went through and how you felt.
00:38:37:19 - 00:39:06:04
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Anyway, she said, She told me to go and look at this account. I looked and this woman had literally done a story, got her phone and was just crying on camera. Right. And I was like, that isn't vulnerability. That is very staged. Like, look how vulnerable I am. No, no, no, like no one who is in the moment of being upset and sad, thinks, oh, hang on, let me just get my phone and go do a story, like that's not it.
00:39:06:04 - 00:39:27:14
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, for me, it felt and the fact that it still makes me feel a little bit sick, that every time I think about it that there are pictures of me on the Internet that I would never have vetted in a million years. But then I and it kind of makes me go, you know what? And, and I know through people telling me there are people who were like, thank you.
00:39:27:15 - 00:39:54:06
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Thank you for doing that. And also, thanks for going that you felt sick doing it and it wasn't I don't have all the confidence in the world which people might be surprised because I speak and I think sometimes when you speak, they think, oh, you know, you're really confident. And it's like, yeah, but I'm confident within a very controlled space and shape and showing up in a certain way and actually start to move out of that comfort zone and go, no, this is who I am.
00:39:54:06 - 00:40:08:01
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And this time showing up actually feels it just feels really honest and, and it doesn't feel like a strategy, even though in a way it is like it is a strategy, but it isn't if you know what I mean.
00:40:08:01 - 00:40:28:08
Joyann Boyce
I think it is a strategy because that is not the norm. Like I'm I don't know how to phrase it, but it feels like you're essentially marketing the inclusive version of yourself. And because that is not what people do, everything is curated, everything's following everything we've done before and we've learned from history. We shouldn't keep doing that.
00:40:28:11 - 00:40:29:10
Teresa Heath-Wareing
No.
00:40:29:12 - 00:40:49:13
Joyann Boyce
So, it's so amazing to see. Yeah, yeah. I don't even know how to phrase it. You've got me stumped towards your mixing the inclusive version of yourself of a brand that you have control of, and you're allowing it to be the change that started you getting on stage. You're going full circle at the moment and it’s. Yeah.
00:40:49:15 - 00:41:05:19
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah. And I think being honest about that and saying, I'm not doing this because I feel this about me like and I actually, I think the email I wrote and in the post, it was like, So if you're not feeling brave, you can be borrow mine because it appears I have a lot more than I realized like. I obviously have a lot more courage than I thought.
00:41:05:21 - 00:41:26:09
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And but also the other thing it's done and interestingly, the story will all make sense. And in a few months’ time when some other stuff comes out. But this being vulnerable is allowing me to give myself permission to show up vulnerable in the future. I've got some things that I want to share in the future that quite honestly, I would never have shared previously.
00:41:26:12 - 00:41:44:18
Teresa Heath-Wareing
But again, it's about going, you know, I have I've done an episode years back on my anxiety, which again, I was nearly physically sick having a conversation about it to the point where my family didn't even know I had anxiety. They didn't know that it was still a problem for me. They didn't know I was on medication. They didn't know I had therapy.
00:41:44:24 - 00:41:57:13
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And now I openly speak about the fact of these things because again, someone and a few people did it yesterday, everything looks like it's going great. And I'm like, yeah, Instagram's awesome, isn't it? Like you just don't know so.
00:41:57:19 - 00:41:58:16
Joyann Boyce
You have no idea.
00:41:58:19 - 00:42:25:10
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I think the more we can be honest about these things, but in a you know, I'm being vulnerable but I'm and I have to saying like I'll show you the scar, not the wound. Like I'm doing the work on myself and I'm working through the stuff and then I will go, okay, this is how I've struggled with my mental health or this is how I've struggled with living in a larger body and this is how I am working through it.
00:42:25:16 - 00:43:02:09
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I don't feel the need to do an Instagram story as I'm getting dressed all day when I'm hot and sweaty, going, I hate what I’m wearing and I look awful. That isn't vulnerable. That's, that's doing it for something. And I would never do that. So I think the, I guess it kind of comes back to doing the diversity and inclusivity just to prove a point or just to do a thing like it's all, that there's a big difference between me showing a full body picture of myself doing it that way and doing it a way just to go, Oh, look, everybody can do it.
00:43:02:11 - 00:43:11:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
You know, I'm not really confident in doing it, but I'm lying to the world going, just get you swimwear, everyone, have a wonderful time. Like, there’s a difference.
00:43:11:00 - 00:43:21:01
Joyann Boyce
Or even seeing women in larger bodies, like promote and highlight other women and say, oh my gosh, this woman is so brave for doing that, blah blah blah.
00:43:21:14 - 00:43:22:04
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah.
00:43:22:06 - 00:43:44:18
Joyann Boyce
And it's interesting in the personal brand perspective, because they're happy to highlight and shout about everyone else but not step into the light and embrace in a positive way. There's a balance because I think there's an interesting balance in what you're doing about doing the work and then embracing at the same time, not just exposing yourself because we know what the comments are.
00:43:44:18 - 00:43:50:20
Joyann Boyce
We, you know how it goes on socials and in marketing you get the feedback whether you want it or not.
00:43:50:22 - 00:44:13:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And, and we know that when we do something like that. So obviously that post was like fire from a social media perspective, right? But for every comment I had that was positive, I probably and luckily I don't get negative comments or I hadn't had any. But I can imagine those people in my world who know me, who don't maybe like me, I'm not their cup of tea.
00:44:13:00 - 00:44:29:01
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And that's fine. Like I don't have to be. That would have had a lot to say about it, would have been like, oh my God, can you believe she did this? Like, I know that. But also, I think because I have done so much work, I know that's very little to do with me because I would have done the same.
00:44:29:03 - 00:44:49:22
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And that's a really hard things to admit, because I don't want to, I don't want to admit I was like that, but I would have done the same. And that had nothing to do with how they were showing up. It had to do with me and how I felt about me and what I thought of my larger body. So, I looked at other people in larger body and thought, oh my God, can you believe they're wearing that like, and that's awful.
00:44:49:24 - 00:44:58:20
Joyann Boyce
That’s just how society has shaped and all of the things going on. I'm curious to know now where you are, if you're sending a brief to a photographer.
00:44:58:22 - 00:45:00:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Mm hmm.
00:45:00:02 - 00:45:16:11
Joyann Boyce
And they, let's say the photographer has given you full range is a full 360 shoot for the year. So, you're going into the winter, summer, all of that, all of the outfits. Do you see the images as your inspiration that you'll send being different to what you sent previously?
00:45:16:13 - 00:45:19:04
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yes, I do. I think
00:45:19:04 - 00:45:35:04
Teresa Heath-Wareing
what's interesting is I haven’t had a photoshoot in flipping ages. Right. So, the last issue I had, which I did, I changed my hair. So, I had very dark hair and I'm going grey, very grey. And it was just getting too much to try and keep up with dark hair. So, we started going lighter.
00:45:35:04 - 00:45:55:23
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, I did need a photoshoot because I physically looked different from having almost black hair, which is why I had a lighter hair. So, I had won, I think probably over a year ago, maybe 18 months ago in Nashville, which is probably some of the very perfect looking pictures that you'll see now and I had it by an American photographer.
00:45:55:23 - 00:46:16:02
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, the comments I've had is you look at American, right? Which is kind of funny. So, I do have them but I haven't had a shoot in ages and, and I think a lot more of my content is either taken from videos I've done or stories or I used to do lives a lot and a lot more of
00:46:16:02 - 00:46:32:24
Teresa Heath-Wareing
My content is coming from that. And don't get me wrong, I have a ton of images of me because I've had so many photoshoots, but I think if I was going to have some more, I would have them much more real. Like the ones like the first ones, I had done in the States were done in San Diego. And boy, they were stunning.
00:46:33:03 - 00:46:55:02
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I don't live in San Diego, I live in Shropshire in the UK, where the weather's not that awesome most of the time. Like, you know what I mean? So yeah, it's lovely to go look. I go to San Diego, which I did. I wasn't lying, but it wasn't, it wasn't really true. Like putting photos of me, like on a beach or whatever was not really factually correct.
00:46:55:02 - 00:47:15:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, I think for me it would be a lot more about actually in the last shoot I had done in the UK, I had them done in my garden, in my greenhouse, because that's what I love and that's who I am. So, I think now I'm not afraid to say that because my, my thing and I'm really strong about this is my whole brand is called Your Dream Business.
00:47:15:00 - 00:47:34:19
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And it's about saying, who are you? What's important to you? How do you want to show up? What does your dream business look like? Because some people that dream business looks like making seven figures. Some People that dream business looks like having a team. Some people do the school run every day. Some people want to take the summer off.
00:47:34:21 - 00:47:59:10
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And you know what? Neither is right or wrong because their personal to you and what I'm trying to do is empower people to go, I don't care what the experts are saying. I don't care that someone else is, you know, making me like, think about what success is because I'm not meeting their standards. Actually, this is what success means to me, and I am very happy where I am.
00:47:59:10 - 00:48:28:21
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, I know that some people think, Oh my God, like gardening, how old are you? But I love it. Like, so do you know what? It's Ace, you know. And I think what was really interesting yesterday, I still have a ways to go. Like yesterday we had some great talks, you being one of them. And one of them was the very first one was a really funny talk and it was a really quirky one in terms of like being chaotic on social media and being hilarious and being almost allowing yourself to look a fool.
00:48:28:21 - 00:48:46:17
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Right. And I have always worried about that. I don't want to look a fool. I don't want you know; this probably stems from lots of things but I want people to take me serious and know I'm good at what I do. But also, and as you would know yesterday from our table, Joyann, it was very light because we laughed a lot.
00:48:46:17 - 00:49:03:24
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Right. But that's me. So actually, now I need to show up being a bit more of a fool because that's who I am. And when you get me in real life, when you get me in coaching or in one of my memberships, that's how I show up. I'm very authentic. And I always, as I’m doing a coaching call and as I might, you come in the room.
00:49:03:24 - 00:49:22:17
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I always like wait a few minutes and I'm like, what a funny story I've got to tell you. And normally I've got something funny to tell them because I like funny things. So. So even now I can still show up more authentic. I can still be more in power of who I am and how I want to be. And, and I think we could all still do that to a degree.
00:49:22:17 - 00:49:35:13
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I think we are probably. And we've got to stop it. We've got to stop doing that. We've got to stop showing up in a certain way because we need going. Right back to what Amy said. I needed to see her stand on stage to go. That was okay for me to do it.
00:49:35:19 - 00:49:37:02
Joyann Boyce
Yeah. And somebody needs to see you.
00:49:37:04 - 00:49:56:12
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Everybody needs that. Yeah, everybody. You know, everyone needs to see someone to give them permission to go. Oh, there's someone who looks like me, acts like me, or has the same upbringing as me or had the same, you know, religion as I did. And they are doing it so I can do it too.
00:49:56:14 - 00:50:15:09
Joyann Boyce
And I'm also curious because you mentioned about just being you and the crafted image aspect, if this time running your own business, marketing your own building, your own personal brand, marketing yourself is also an element of unlearning corporate marketing and corporate restrictions.
00:50:15:09 - 00:50:49:09
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yes, 100%. So, when I was in corporate world, there was no talk of me being a wife, me being a mum, me having any outside thing at all. I worked in a very male dominated industry, a very white male dominated since I worked for the car industry. And these men, as lovely as they were with big egos, did not want to hear that I was married, did not want to hear that I had a daughter or, you know, children or whatever it was.
00:50:49:11 - 00:51:21:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, I was taught or I learned that I'm a very different person when I step into work, or I should show up as a very different person. And, and I remember actually one of my bosses, like almost being very derogatory because I laughed a lot, almost to the point of I can't be very smart. Yeah, because I laugh and I have fun and I have a personality like so it almost trained me to go, This is how you show up, this is how you be.
00:51:21:12 - 00:51:50:20
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And I think it's taken And like I said, I've been in business now. I've had my business for nine years, and I think there has been so many things that have influenced me, and I'm not sure it would have happened any faster, but I think it probably could now, to show up how I do now, to be who I am now, and even things like my podcast, I no longer have an editor like and you know, I say that and then I say, my editor was amazing and I loved him to bits, but I just got to the point where I was like, actually very little editing was being done.
00:51:50:20 - 00:52:01:18
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I did very clean episodes and the fact of if I was in the middle of a podcast episode and I forgot my words, I'd literally go hang on 2 seconds and I would I wouldn't edit the I that would be me and really.
00:52:01:18 - 00:52:02:12
Joyann Boyce
Be a part of it.
00:52:02:14 - 00:52:17:18
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah, because I was so and again, I had listened to other people and it's weird, all these people I looked up to now and even ones I'm friends with, I don't want to do business like they do business like I don't want to show up the way they do because I'm not them. Like it works brilliantly for them because that's who they are.
00:52:17:20 - 00:52:33:10
Teresa Heath-Wareing
But I'm not those people. So, I listen to other people's podcast and I can hear the script, I can hear the considered well-thought-out stuff, and it's like, I don't want to be like that. That's not who you would get. You know? I used to be told, I talk too fast when I got on stage. I talk fast.
00:52:33:12 - 00:52:55:20
Teresa Heath-Wareing
That's what you get. And like and I think, like I said, I think there has been a ton of stuff that has got me to that point. But now my job is to fast forward my clients, my students, my coaching clients, to go know quickly, understand who you are and what you want, and then give them the confidence to go and not go and do it.
00:52:56:01 - 00:53:01:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And don't give a damn what anybody else thinks. Like show exactly how you want to show up.
00:53:01:02 - 00:53:20:03
Joyann Boyce
It's so fascinating. I don't even know if you can hear what I'm seeing. I hear what I'm seeing. Anywho. But the way you've gone through your journey is essentially from my perspective, you had a bunch of biases, patriarchy and all of those systems applied.
00:53:20:05 - 00:53:20:14
Teresa Heath-Wareing
To.
00:53:20:14 - 00:53:49:15
Joyann Boyce
Your way of thinking, which we all do. And this is the thing that I was trying to emphasise in my talk is that bias is everywhere. We can't just think we're going to spot it and remove it, but to think that nine years for you to do it for yourself, the person that we think the most and now you actively and it will impact your work because when you're training others and coaching others to represent themselves, you're going to help them to do it in an inclusive way and help them do it.
00:53:49:17 - 00:53:53:06
Joyann Boyce
I don't want to use authentic, but authentic is the right sense.
00:53:53:08 - 00:54:17:10
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And the real sense of the word, not the kind of marketing B.S. sense of the word. And I think this is the thing with, what happens when there is bias, when people are not included, where people not represented, when people are not given permission to show up as they are, is they think something's wrong with them. And especially when you are being coached by someone.
00:54:17:10 - 00:54:39:03
Teresa Heath-Wareing
When I was being coached by a straight white male who had no children who could do what he wanted to do, and his version of down time with surfing, who morning routine, probably like exercise and various other things, which did not resonate with me at all when I tried to replicate what he was doing and it didn't work for me, where did I think the problem was?
00:54:39:05 - 00:55:06:06
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Me? I thought I was broke. I thought I was the one who wasn't good enough. I thought I was the one that wasn't capable of creating something wonderful or people didn't want to hear from me because I wasn't showing up like he was. So, the damage this does and luckily I have done a lot of work and it's taken me a lot of time and a lot of money, which again, I'm very privileged that I can be in a position where I can get that help.
00:55:06:08 - 00:55:23:10
Teresa Heath-Wareing
But it's taken a lot of work for me to go, oh, hang on a minute. No, you're not right. It just worked for you. But I don't have to do that. And I can take that bit from there. And that bit from that and that bit from there and take all the things and go. These are important to me and if they are brilliant, I will build them into me.
00:55:23:16 - 00:55:49:21
Teresa Heath-Wareing
If they're not, I don't give a damn that you don't think like someone said to me yesterday, oh how many members have you got now? And I felt like I had to justify the numbers I had because I don't have a massive, you know, community in terms of my club that people pay to be in. But my club is very expensive and, and also because I'm trying to get different people at different point in their business now, but also like I like that personal touch.
00:55:49:21 - 00:56:04:12
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, I don't want, you know, a thousand people in there or 500 people in there because I won't know who they are. But I felt like I had to justify it because I was trying to meet someone else's expectations of what success was instead of just going yeah, this is how many I've got, I mean, quite honestly, I probably should’ve told them to shove off.
00:56:04:12 - 00:56:07:04
Joyann Boyce
Like, who’d ask that question?
00:56:07:04 - 00:56:28:24
Teresa Heath-Wareing
It's none of your business like you know. But, but yeah, like when we're doing that, when we're looking and again, if we're looking at someone's marketing or we're looking at, at the world and we don't show up and people like us aren't doing the things, then we start to think we're the problem and it's not they’re the problem.
00:56:29:01 - 00:56:30:07
Joyann Boyce
The system is broken.
00:56:30:09 - 00:56:31:08
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah.
00:56:31:10 - 00:56:41:02
Joyann Boyce
All right. I I've been thinking about so at the end of every episode we ask our guests to imagine a campaign. And I don't know, I have two scenarios in my head.
00:56:41:04 - 00:56:43:09
Teresa Heath-Wareing
See, I'd rather you said.
00:56:43:11 - 00:57:07:19
Joyann Boyce
I have two scenarios of the campaign. How? One, I'll let you choose. One would be how would you reimagine a car commercial to make it more inclusive, or representative, or how would you reimagine a like a coaching club commercial or campaign?
00:57:07:21 - 00:57:30:15
Teresa Heath-Wareing
That's a good one. See? See the car ones tricky because as we kind of said at the beginning, that immediately is going to rule out certain people from a price point of view. Right. Because someone who perhaps you know, doesn't have a job or is homeless is never going to be able to become a customer because they have to physically pay for a car that's very expensive.
00:57:30:17 - 00:57:34:06
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So that is a tough one, although.
00:57:34:06 - 00:57:51:23
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I so I feel like they're limited as to how inclusive they can be in their marketing because could you imagine the backlash that someone like Landrover would get if they tried to make out like some, it was a homeless person driving one of these cars and enjoying the experience. Like kind of wouldn't necessarily work.
00:57:52:00 - 00:57:57:20
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I think for the coaching thing for me.
00:57:57:20 - 00:58:01:01
Teresa Heath-Wareing
it would be the ability.
00:58:01:01 - 00:58:14:17
Teresa Heath-Wareing
It would almost be focused on the coach in seeing the, the different types of people they work with and the shift that the coach can make.
00:58:14:19 - 00:58:16:09
Joyann Boyce
Chameleon vibes.
00:58:16:11 - 00:58:35:09
Teresa Heath-Wareing
In the sense of like, one thing that I pride myself on is that I can shift quickly to, okay I'm talking to that person who what's important to them right now is this, this, this, their life is this, this, this, their partner is this their struggles might be X, Y, Z. And that's what I have to take into account with them.
00:58:35:09 - 00:59:02:04
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And then I will shift to someone else who has a completely different make up of world. So, it's almost like seeing how, because I think sometimes when you see coaches and I would argue that, you know, I am similar, that they attract a certain type of person and I naturally attract women who are mums, right? Because I am a mum and I'm a woman and, and therefore that might be why attract them.
00:59:02:06 - 00:59:26:01
Teresa Heath-Wareing
But it would almost be great to see that someone could shift rather than going, you're this type of coach. So, you deal with these type of people. So, it would almost be great because not only would that make me an amazing coach, such a better coach if I had people who came to me and I have, I have had a I'm not going to say fairly diverse because it hasn't been fairly diverse, if I'm honest.
00:59:26:01 - 00:59:49:22
Teresa Heath-Wareing
But I have had people yeah, you know, who have different backgrounds, different ethnicities, different concerns, who you know, and it's interesting because I've had people who, when it comes to selling their thing, their ethnicity has taken a direct impact on how they show up or who is doing what they currently do. And they would need more courage to go out there and do what they're doing because they're not represented.
00:59:50:03 - 01:00:25:11
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Whereas I could work with someone else who is represented everywhere and they'll have different issues in the sense of being represented everywhere might be the problem because like there are a million of them doing it. So I think for me it would be great to see a coach that is, and this isn't normally a thing because coaches tend to work in niches and like I said, you know, they tend to attract like, but it'd be great to go, I understand this and not only do I understand it, but I can shift my viewing, which again, what would do for me as a coach would be phenomenal because as a coach for me, my job is
01:00:25:11 - 01:00:49:11
Teresa Heath-Wareing
asking questions. My job is understanding, and I couldn't imagine a better education that I could get. And I'm quite excited by the thought of that actually, that actually what if I worked with someone who was transgender? What if I worked with someone that, you know, had a particular religion or had a particular ethnicity that isn't being represented like the education.
01:00:49:11 - 01:00:55:02
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And that sounds like a real selfish thing that I'm doing here. But, you know, what that would.
01:00:55:02 - 01:00:56:05
Joyann Boyce
How that would influence you.
01:00:56:07 - 01:01:16:19
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And add to me? But only just with the person I'm coaching, but with the other people I coach and how I show up and how, how I can be more inclusive. That would just be amazing to see that. But like I said, I tend to see that a Black coach might attract Black clients. You know, a white coach might attract white ones, and it's not.
01:01:16:21 - 01:01:27:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And I can understand that. I can understand why that's the case. But I just think it would be awesome to be able to go, look, this coach can deal with all these different people in all these different spaces.
01:01:27:06 - 01:01:38:20
Joyann Boyce
Okay, so my brain has been braining one minute video. Yeah, none skips skippable YouTube ad, I love this ones. From a marketing perspective, not from a viewer perspective.
01:01:38:22 - 01:01:40:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah.
01:01:40:02 - 01:01:50:24
Joyann Boyce
And the question you mentioned earlier, so it would be a shot of you asking this question, but as you ask it to each different type of person, the way you ask it changes.
01:01:51:04 - 01:01:52:03
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Oh, I love that.
01:01:52:08 - 01:02:15:04
Joyann Boyce
What does the success look like for you? And it's the on the for you. It starts change and each persona shows up and you kind of like demonstrate the different ways you support them. It can still, I think there's still a niche of staying within mothers and how success looks different for mothers. There's a wide variety of mothers we can, we can represent.
01:02:15:04 - 01:02:16:06
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah, yeah, 100%.100%.
01:02:16:08 - 01:02:22:16
Joyann Boyce
Wide, wide variety. Every time you emphasise what does it look like for you, for you, for you, it changes.
01:02:22:19 - 01:02:23:18
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I love that.
01:02:23:22 - 01:02:31:23
Joyann Boyce
And it starts with a glimpse of you helping them and then them on like a Ted X stage, them on like blah blah blah. You keep seeing the snippets.
01:02:31:23 - 01:02:52:13
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah. Yeah. And then them doing the things that is important to because there were some, you know, like I said, there are lots of my members and some of them who basically took the summer off and how amazing for them that they could do that and they get to do the school run because that's what they want. And there are some like myself included, and it's kind of nice to attract these people because I don't want to do the school run.
01:02:52:19 - 01:03:15:21
Teresa Heath-Wareing
You know, I am now in a position because I'm not with my daughters dad, I don't have a full time. So again, I'm in a different and one of the words I use all the time is the season of life that you're in, which again implies that, that flexibility and moveability like. And that's the other thing because someone will come to me and be like, I'm so frustrated because I'm not, you know, I'm not been able to achieve X, Y, Z.
01:03:15:21 - 01:03:35:01
Teresa Heath-Wareing
And it's like, but the season, your life you're in right now that isn't important to you or that isn't your focus, which is why you're not achieving it. So, traveling all over the world when you've got two young children, that's not, doesn't mean that that's never going to happen. It doesn't mean that as your seasons change, you know that that isn't going to be impacted or different in some way.
01:03:35:01 - 01:03:47:00
Teresa Heath-Wareing
But again, it's like really helping them to go, oh, oh, I'm alright to be me. I'm okay to like show up as I am or want what I want because that's what's important to me. I love that.
01:03:47:02 - 01:03:51:10
Joyann Boyce
I am loving this. If you ever want to direct it, I'm there. I’m down.
01:03:51:12 - 01:03:53:13
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Okay, cool. Cool.
01:03:53:15 - 01:04:17:21
Joyann Boyce
And even what you were saying just now as well around success changes as the seasons change and that's fine, the way you define it changes. It's. Yeah. And I love just yeah, yeah I could see it because I really enjoy. So, one of the speakers yesterday markets products and every time I see him he always says oh I don't think this could be made inclusive.
01:04:17:21 - 01:04:19:05
Joyann Boyce
And I'm like, I love a challenge.
01:04:19:11 - 01:04:21:12
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah, yes,
01:04:21:12 - 01:04:36:16
Joyann Boyce
Because you can always find a way, even if it's cereal or a smoothie drink, you can find a way to sprinkle some inclusivity in there. And I think if you do attract mothers, there's so many types of mothers that we don't see.
01:04:36:18 - 01:04:37:11
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yes.
01:04:37:11 - 01:04:43:05
Joyann Boyce
And we don’t see their version of success. So that would be an amazing campaign.
01:04:43:10 - 01:04:44:11
Teresa Heath-Wareing
That would be. I love it.
01:04:44:13 - 01:04:46:19
Joyann Boyce
And celebrating them along the whole journey as well.
01:04:46:19 - 01:05:12:06
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah. Regardless of what it is like and especially in the online space because the online space is defined by anybody, that's hugely, I'm going to hesitate to say successful because that's their version of success. But the people who are the top of the tree in, in the online space are having seven figure launches. They are having hundreds, if not thousands of people coming in to their staff and that's what they're selling.
01:05:12:06 - 01:05:33:06
Teresa Heath-Wareing
That's what they're saying is success. Well, that doesn't look like success to me. Don't get me wrong. I'd have the money tomorrow. There's no doubt about that. But I don't want hundreds of thousands of people in my world because I love the fact that a member can come on. And I probably know if they've got children and what their names are or what their partner does or, you know, I've got that touch.
01:05:33:06 - 01:05:50:17
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, showing up and going yeah I’m doing the school run and I frickin’ love it. And I'm well happy about it, right? Or I've got 35 people in my membership and I am living my best life. And yes, it's not a thousand and I'm not sorry about that. So yeah, I love it. We're doing it.
01:05:50:19 - 01:05:54:21
Joyann Boyce
I think with these questions I'm just kind of setting myself up to direct commercials in the future somewhere.
01:05:54:21 - 01:05:59:03
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I like it. Yeah. This is like a new sideline for you.
01:05:59:05 - 01:06:06:18
Joyann Boyce
Is so fun. I just love challenges and puzzles and, you know, complicated things that everyone's like, It's impossible. I’m like no, it's not.
01:06:06:20 - 01:06:09:22
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Yeah, that's so good Joyann, thank you. Thank you so much.
01:06:09:22 - 01:06:33:10
Joyann Boyce
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This has been amazing. I have loved this conversation. You've given me the terminology that is changing the way that I'm thinking about describing body representation, and I think it's so amazing to hear your journey as well, how you literally come full circle from why you started to now being the person that is influencing others to start.
01:06:33:12 - 01:07:05:09
Teresa Heath-Wareing
Thank you, Joyann. Honestly, that was so, it's been so much fun talking to you and, and I am so grateful for you showing up and educating and helping and supporting because we had this conversation yesterday. You showed something that came from AI and there were many biases in there and biases that I wouldn't have recognised. And for me, having people like you that I can learn from and be educated by and you can support this, is just phenomenal.
01:07:05:09 - 01:07:06:15
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, thank you so much.
01:07:06:20 - 01:07:11:08
Joyann Boyce
Appreciate it. I'm sure we're going to have another episode, because it wasn't even a conversation we planned to have.
01:07:11:08 - 01:07:17:14
Teresa Heath-Wareing
No, we didn’t. It often happens like that.
01:07:17:16 - 01:07:32:12
Joyann Boyce
But thank you so much for tuning in to the Marketing Made Inclusive podcast. Join us again next week. We'll be speaking to another amazing guest, but you can, oh Teresa, tell them where they can find you on the Internet. I almost forgot that one.
01:07:32:14 - 01:07:51:06
Teresa Heath-Wareing
So, Teresa Heath-Wareing. My name is very unusual. You put it into Google, you find me, but you can go to Teresa Heath-Wareing or .com you can come over to Instagram which check out if Joyann is following me because I do have a few fake accounts. I don't know why I attract people to fake accounts. I do not have a massive account.
01:07:51:06 - 01:07:55:11
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I have no idea. Anyway, it’s those perfect looking pictures, but.
01:07:55:13 - 01:07:57:20
Joyann Boyce
It just makes it prime for replication.
01:07:57:23 - 01:08:09:04
Teresa Heath-Wareing
I mean, I should have the more authentic self. Yeah. If I'm been like, crying stuff on, one's posting that. So yeah. So come over to us, that's where I hang out. Or check out Your Dream Business podcast.
01:08:09:06 - 01:08:18:01
Joyann Boyce
Fantastic. We'll put all the links in the description wherever you are listening or watching. Thank you so much for tuning in, have an amazing rest of your day.
